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In a recent comment, Kristy notes that even though she is now a vegan, she has “a ‘don’t ask don’t tell’ policy about ingredients at restaurants.” In other words, while she prepares vegan food for herself when she’s in control, she doesn’t worry too much about hidden non-vegan ingredients in food that is prepared for her (at least, that’s what I’m imagining she means :)). What she doesn’t know can’t hurt her.
Personally I think this is a great attitude to have. While I’m all in favor of being aware of what goes into my body, sometimes it’s nice to take a more laid-back approach when other people are preparing the food. To me, what I eat in small amounts is unlikely to hurt me. I’m not trying to meet any particular purity standard; I just prefer to not eat meat. I tend to ask about and avoid obvious meat content (I can’t really stomach a soup with chunks of bacon in it, for example), but I’m not going to stress about whether or not a dessert served to me contains a wee bit of gelatin 0r the like. I actually wish I could be more flexible in certain situations, but the flavor of meat bothers me too much for me to enjoy it. On the other hand, I’m a pretty fastidious label-reader when I’m in the grocery store.
Obviously the line that works for me isn’t going to work for everyone, and that’s just fine. Some people need to avoid certain foods more strictly due to allergies or food intolerances. Some don’t mind a little chicken broth or a few bacon bits in their dinner from time to time. Some people are disgusted with the idea that even a tiny bit of animal product might make it onto their fork. Still others draw the line based on religious or moral principles.
What’s your personal policy on this? How strict are you when it comes to knowing exactly what’s in your food?
I think this question is great, it really pertains to a common dillema that every vegan must face. I think the answer lies in availability of more restaurants that may not be exclusive to vegans but are inclusive to their dietary needs. I feel as if the food industry should be catering to vegans (being the rising demographic that we are) vs. us catering to them. Pizza Fusion which I discovered through word of mouth is a place that caters to EVERYONES dietary needs. Even non vegans fall for their vegan pizza. Introducing a clash of vegan friendly, organic, all natural and gluten free foods they have created a new outlook dining. If more restaraunts were to follow their food ideologies, their would no longer be a need for “don’t ask, don’t tell dining”
Great question. This is tied to my “vegan at home” policy. But when a friend cooks or I’m dining out, I’ll bend towards lacto-ovo (it’s woefully difficult to avoid butter in London!). That said, though i’m not a strict vegan, I am a strict vegetarian. I always ask at restaurants, especially with soup – broth can be deceiving!
Jul,
Although I am a “subtle vegetarian” by choice, I very much do ask and tell when I need to. If I order anything suspicious (soup, sauces, etc), I tend to talk to the wait person to make sure it’s vegetarian. If I don’t want to have this conversation, I simply find something more veggie-friendly. I end up eating a lot of pasta with marinara, I guess…
I just wrote up a longer comment on this at my blog – subtlevegetarian.com.
1623 days ago
[...] up by my blog buddy, Jul of Veggie Chic – do we as vegetarians or vegans participate in “don’t ask don’t tell dining“? In other words, should we explicitly request ingredient information from restaurants or [...]
Valerie provided a well-balanced answer to a tricky question.
It is important that vegetarians and vegans support the animal cause in a positive way. I have found from experience that when doing so, it’s half the battle won.
I don’t go to great lengths (like “What’s the base of this soup?”), but I do always ask if there’s meat in a dish. Mainly because I live in a country where “vegetarian” means just a little bit of meat. And if a meal I ordered that mentioned no meat products on the menu comes out with meat on it, I always send it back.
That is an awesome answer Valerie!
This is really tough to respond to – I hope this comes out right! Well, we all know that there is no vegan police. We are our own judges of what is or is not vegan, what is or is not okay in how we eat.
Personally, I feel like that extra moment of care that we put in, that extra bit of attention that we pay to what is in our food, is a minor sacrifice compared to what billions of animals go through. While the waiter, or the person eating with us may think we’re anal or melodramatic, that extra bit of care might also send the message that we will not tolerate supporting the animal industries in any way.
But there’s also no reason to think that this level of attention or care will make us into negative wind-bags who no one wants to be friends with. I think that vegans such as Colleen Patrick-Goudreau of Vegetarian Food for Thought (podcast) demonstrate that care for the lives of animals can be done in a positive way. You might even be able to inject some humour into the situation. The point is, if you act embarrassed or uptight about it, those feelings are catching. You can be specific about foods in a way that is open and non-threatening. If people with allergies are allowed to pick and choose, you should be too. This doesn’t make you anti-social, “crazy” or “obsessive.” You care about animals, your health, and about the vision of a society in which these problems wouldn’t exist. You are different from others, you are challenging the norms, embrace it!
I’m not sure if we can ever be 100% vegan. I just found out that playing cards have gelatin on them. There’s also the chance that people will trick you, or even though you have done the best you can in asking about ingredients – restaurants make mistakes.
But I personally feel like as vegan, as people who know better, we have the responsibility to the animals and to ourselves to do our BEST. To do anything and everything we can to respect the lives of animals. Especially on the level of being okay with a “little” chicken broth or bacon bits; I think that constitutes someone who is not vegan, but maybe an aspiring vegan who is misguided.
I have nothing but respect for vegans and aspiring vegans everywhere, but as a movement we need to understand our motivations and as much as possible act together for animals as best as we can. Aside from just changing our eating habits, I think many of us hope for change on a larger level.
This is a great question. I’m really strict at home and pretty strict in restaurants. I usually ask about gelatine and stock.
But I do follow a don’t ask-don’t tell rule at friends’ houses. None of my friends are vegetarian, so if we go round to their house for dinner, they’ve cooked something special for us. I love eing cooked for and sharing a meal. I’m grateful for their generosity in cooking for me. I don’t expect them to worry about hidden meat and I don’t quibble with their ingredients.
I think it’s good to try to avoid all animal products, but as I tend to get obsessive about food and have had eating-disorder behavior in the past, I try not to be too crazy about it.
For me I’ll ask for no meat and no cheese or other dairy products, but like someone said if I get a veggie burger or something with a little bit of eggs or with honey in it, I’m not going to freak out about it, because if I did I wouldn’t be eating out, wouldn’t be social, and I would probably not get enough to eat.
I’ve had too many days where I’m trying so hard to control my food that that’s all I think about all day. I’m not going to let veganism control me the way eating disorders have, I’m going to enjoy being vegan as much as possible and be REASONABLE about it.
I’m going to have to take the minority side here.
Living out here in flyover country, if I limited myself to vegan friendly restaurants, I’d never go out to eat. I rarely go out, but for business or social reasons, sometimes I really have no choice.
I won’t eat a chunk of meat or cheese, but I’m not going to be able to ask if the glycerin in this comes from animal or vegetable sources. I’m doing the best I can and I don’t claim to be perfect. Oddly, I do the best in the fancier places. When I mention that I’m a vegan, they seem to understand what that means and work with me to come up with something that will satisfy all concerned. I’ve had some of my best meals that way.
I’m with Kristy – I’m vegan for ethical, environmental, and health reasons, but I don’t see any point in being overzealous about it. That’s cool if you ask about all the ingredients, but I don’t feel the need. I just order vegetarian meals and ask them to hold any cheese, or dairy-based sauce. If there’s something non-vegan in the restaurant’s veggie burger, I don’t need to to stress about it. Also, I try to show my family how easy being vegan (or vegetarian) is, and making the wait staff find out all the ingredients in everything doesn’t help my case.
It is not a question on whether “it won’t hurt me”, the question is whether I am ethically happy with my meal.
For me, a meal containing animal products has created an unnecessary amount of suffering (meat, fish and dairy whether organic or not create an enormous amount of suffering for the animals involved, I can provide links and more info if necessary but I think you can all do your own research).
Some eggs perhaps (although not in my opinion) are a bit more debatable (and maybe the same applies to some types of honey)…
So my point is, whether I think it is irrelevant whether it will hurt “me” or not. If my food has created suffering for other beings, I am not happy to eat it and I will make this point very clear.
Great question! I’m generally pretty careful at restaurants to make sure that there aren’t any animal products in my food. However, when I go to a restaurant that’s known for being particularly vegan-friendly, I typically just assume that anything that doesn’t obviously contain animal products is really vegan.
It may not “hurt her” but what about the animals? I always ask what is in my food. Maybe I’m too anal about what I put in my body but I believe I’m doing the right thing ethically. I also think that it’s up to everyone to make their own choices on what they eat but,in my opinion, if you are still ingesting animals-broth,gelatin etc you aren’t a vegetarian.