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At last, some sensible words about vaccines, courtesy of actress Amanda Peet on yesterday’s Good Morning America:
“It seems that the media is often giving celebrities and actors more authority on this issue than they are giving the experts. I know it’s a paradox, but that’s part of why I wanted to become a spokesperson, to say to people, ‘Please don’t listen to me. Don’t listen to actors. Go to the experts.’”“My main message to parents is that they should not be taking medical advice from me or any other celebrity. They should look to their pediatrician, the AAP and other experts.”
Yes.
Peet clearly identifies herself here as a “spokesperson,” as someone communicating a message—-get your child vaccinated—to the public. She is not, as she clearly acknowledges, a dispenser of “medical advice.” She is a mother, and the mother of a young child, and the mother of a young child at a time when one worry after another travels ’round the internet and the OBGYN’s waiting room: How can you make sure there’s nothing wrong with your yet unborn baby? How can you be 110%-plus sure?
The belief, unsubstantiated by science, that vaccines or something in vaccines can be linked to autism, has led to some 4800 families of autistic children filing claims that a vaccine somehow “damaged” and “injured” their child, with the result that the child became autistic. In many ways, the discussion about vaccines and autism is not so much about autistic children who are here today (and in need of the best schools and services to help them achieve their full potential). Discussions about vaccines and autism are mostly about children, and even children who are yet in utero and have yet to be conceived, who don’t have autism; as proponents of a vaccine-autism link claim, they want to get the thimerosal out and the schedule changed so that no more children will become autistic due to a vaccine. This is one reason why anti-vaccine/pro-vaccine safety advocates seems to be so (at the very least) hesitant and (as often stated) disdainful of evidence for genetic causes of autism. Autism is “preventable” (just say no to those shots, or at least that schedule and green ‘em in the process) and “treatable” (by unproven and potentially dangerous treatments like chelation that stem from also-nproven theories of what causes autism).
And this is precisely why it’s extra-aggravating that vaccines have today come to be so associated with autism. Proponents of a vaccine-autism link can make some very public health-minded-sounding statements about not wanting anymore children to become autistic and not wanting any families to have suffered what they have in raising an autistic child. But much of the rhetoric is about children who are not autistic and who are not even born yet—-no wonder Dr. Paul Offit refers to such anti-vaccine/pro-vaccine-safety advocates as “Autism’s False Prophets,” sending out dire predictions of what will happen if children keep getting vaccinated.
Autism’s False Prophets, Dr. Offit’s new book, is to be published September 5th and various websites (including one under Dr. Offit’s own name, and not his own) have been rife with accusations of his “conflicts of interests” and “ties to Big Pharma”; have generally impugned his character; and have utitlized tactics meant to intimidate and deliver a one-two punch in the gut. I expect the invective will only rise through the month of August and slam down like a tsunami just as September stars. Any surprise that Jenny McCarthy has been linked up with WWE (World Wrestling Entertainment) to “smackdown” autism?
Dr. Offit’s title also hints at the apocalyptic language the proponents of a vaccine-autism link often use: Gotta stop giving all those shots or face a (use to the word again) tsunami, an epidemic, a trainwreck of autism—-keep giving all those vaccines and it’ll be over for tomorrow’s children. It won’t be the first time that we’ve heard of “prophets” who had plenty to say about autism and its causes. From the March 14th Washington Post (via High Beam Research):
A man whose pungent opinions on child-rearing were likened to the preachments of a biblical prophet, Bettelheim was the author of highly influential books and articles-popular and scholarly……….
And I think we know how wrong that “prophet” was.
1228 days ago
[...] weeks at the beach, at the Jersey Shore. Not surprisingly, it was still impossible to avoid talk about vaccines. A new clinical trial of the GFCF diet was announced. While people have strong disagreements about [...]
1346 days ago
[...] 2008 press conference on vaccines sponsored by Every Child By Two at which Dr. Offit and actress Amanda Peet were present, June Johnson (director of Defeat Autism Now!), wrote this on Age of Autism: “I [...]
1374 days ago
[...] Not that this is becoming the autism celebrity blog or anything—–but just read that Britney Spears is worried her 2-year-old son, Jeyden James, has autism. The source is via Spears’ ex-husband, Kevin Federline; according to a “Federline insider,” Jeyden is “very calm and hard to get through to” and that he “does not mix with other children, and prefers to keep away from the crowd.” YellMalta notes that the “news comes after People Magazine reported that the singer attended a fund raiser for Generation Rescue.” A little competition for Jenny (not that she didn’t already have some from Amanda). [...]
1375 days ago
[...] to the claim that vaccines or something in vaccines can be linked to autism—the source of much discussion and dissent for most of my son’s life—-autistic persons are “damaged” and [...]
@Brett, I await your post and do think there’s a reason that so much emotion and so many words get devoted to this topic.
I personally would not conclude that vaccines cause autism , but…… for clarification I certainly would not conclude there is no connection.
I would be happy to listen to the experts , as they say, but only if honesty were a consistancy.
I have experienced, and heard more stories of parents trying to get single shot vaccines for their child , instead of the multi vaccine in one shot.
More times parents have been lied to saying the single vaccines don’t exist.
They DO exist, some places simply don’t want to take the time to order them or the expense.
A little bit of simple give and take in honesty and complying with parent’s needs , would prevent a ton of suspicion.
I remember when there was no admittance to the first pertussis vaccines causing serious reactions. This has resulted in no trust .
There are tons of stories such as these , that “listening to the experts” for good reason false on deaf ears.
Hi brstpathdoc
What kind of information do you want to analyze and on what vaccines ? Flu, MMR, multiple, other? From Cochrane reviews, experts opinions or metaanalysis-other?
lack of a statistically proven clinical implication to the entities cited
But how are confounders considered in the safety trials of vaccines-in terms of not weeks or 1 months but in at least 1 year- with clinical information included?I am talking about clinical studies , you are talking about statistics? Please clarify because I (possibly) misunderstood you
Please be also more specific because there is very specific literature to mention on the topics I presented, but I did not know about your potential (or not) interest on the topic
@MAria and pD: the common theme in the (numerous) studies cited above is the lack of a statistically proven clinical implication to the entities cited. The key word there is proven, as opposed to “may have, could have, might”, etc. Maybe in the future some rigorously controlled, properly conceived prospective / case control studies will show some sort of clinical implications to shifts in inflammatory mediators in the contexts cited. Until then, any alterations as noted above are of unproven clinical significance. This is in contrast to “speculative”. For instance, attributing a described rise in childhood asthma as being secondary to cytokine shifts caused by DPT is purely speculative. I can’t say this isn’t the case, but I am unfamiliar with a study where this is controlled for against other confounding variables (say, something obvious like decreasing air quality over the years). Maybe one exists. I don’t know. As to indolent and long term sequelae which fly below or above the radar of the parameters for reporting adverse reactions, the data are lacking, to my knowledge. I’m open to citation of good studies on this matter, but ones such as those noted above leave me unmoved…..
@Chuck: I don’t know the answer to your question. The CDC website might say, but I don’t know.
@liquid zeolite: is the crap you’re peddling on that website not for profit? Begone, foul troll and woo-monger.
1376 days ago
[...] light of this discussion, consider statement from Bad Astronomy (a blog for Discover Magazine): …….antivaxxers [...]
Getting back to Peet’s statement about leaving the medical advice to the medical professionals—-how much of the “Amanda vs. Jenny” show is not of their making, but of (the too easy to blame) media?
Hi Leila
You said
I’m not opposed to research to find out if a subgroup of autistic people were affected by vaccines. In my humble opinion the trigger was the fever itself and that could have happened if the child developed a fever from a virus present in the environment. Also from the anecdotes I see, it’s hard to tell if the child got the fever as a reaction from the vaccine or from the environment, if they’re getting sick several days or even weeks after the shots. Babies and toddlers get sick a lot. But in any case I’m open to the possibility that the vaccines might have triggered the fevers and therefore the regression in that subgroup. Still, the genetic predisposition is the main factor, otherwise the majority of the population would be autistic.
I disagree in my són´s case based on the clinical evidence we have from him , in the tone of your conclussions. My son was a severe undetected atypical InmuneglobulinA defficient- tested after full schedule of vaccines in salva and blood- and other many things. Fever was never a problem with the vaccines he received but his nutritional metabolic immune and gastrointestinal status at the time of the vaccination was the problem- between many others. He demonstrated problems after the boosters at 18 months but our concerns were never heard and unfortunately we trusted those who should know better and didn´t.You are talking of a subgroup of undetected mitochondrial disorders – but I am concerned about mitochondrial dysfunctions, immune defficiencies- even transitory, homeostasis imbalances and subtle changes that in accumulation produces in time a lot of problems and avoid a susceptible child- even genetically or environmentally or in combination -to be susceptible to adverse reactions to vaccines- but not only. Therefore it is not so simple IMO and no general conclussions may be obtained, even when enough clinical research gave many clues to the adverse reactions to vaccines.
I consider that it is part of the problem how the research is NOT done with questions related to autistic metabolism of xenobiotics in general- being vaccines part of them.- This way the needed answers about why so many autistics have adverse and sometimes very adverse reactions to medications they need for CMPs such as epilepsy or others. could be obtained and be useful to improve life quality. But in the pro/anti discussion there is no place to this possibility. I hope to live enough to see more research -serious and high quality- on all these topics- with the needed respect and consideration of the autistic of all ages and the different needs of different subgroups of them- childre such as my son- and the teen and adult he will be.
Kristina, many of the same ideas have been rattling around my (too full at the moment) brain, and I’ve been trying to figure out how to get them down on the “page”. You’ve done a much better job here in this post than I could have.
Thanks.
Hi Maria –
Great stuff, albeit a bit terrifying.
Furthermore, the general cytokine profile of the Pa recipients was strongly Th2-skewed at 6 months, as indicated by the cytokines induced by the mitogen phytohaemagglutinin. These data demonstrate that the cytokine profile of 6-month-old infants is influenced by the type of formulation of the pertussis vaccine they received at 2, 3 and 4 months of life. Large prospective studies would be warranted to evaluate the possible long-term consequences of this early modulation of the cytokine responses in infants.
While reducing the number of children stricken with pertussis is a laudable goal; the notion that anyone has a clue in the world as to the long term impact of initiating shifts in cytokine levels like this is a joke. If such a shift in cytokines were to result in ‘long term consequences’, does anyone really expect it to be represented in the adverse reaction database listing side effects at 1 in 10,000 doses?
What we do know is that auto immune disoders such as asthma involve an increase in TH2 cytokines, there has been a staggering and undeniable increase in childhood asthma, and a recent analysis of 10K+ children reveals that getting DTAP at two months increases your risk of asthma compared to children vaccinated at four, or six months. On the flip side, we have studies well designed to detect nearly immediate side effects that are either minor, or exceedingly extreme. [A TH2 shift in cytokines has also been identified in autism.]
brstpathdoc – It isn’t that the information you provided isn’t well intentioned, nor that it isn’t useful. I’m sure that in terms of immediate reactions it is of value; but for many of us it just doesn’t do a good job of answering the question over conditions that may take longer than three weeks to develop. Perhaps I am over reacting, or underinformed; can you provide your opinion on the possible long term consequences of initiating cytokine shifts as a result of DTAP administration?
- pD
Hi Maria,
My main point was that RAJ was contradictory when he said McCarthy’s message created awareness for autism as being a lifelong condition, when in fact she’s saying that it can be cured basically by GFCF, antifungals and other DAN methods. That’s the gist of her book.
I’m not opposed to research to find out if a subgroup of autistic people were affected by vaccines. In my humble opinion the trigger was the fever itself and that could have happened if the child developed a fever from a virus present in the environment. Also from the anecdotes I see, it’s hard to tell if the child got the fever as a reaction from the vaccine or from the environment, if they’re getting sick several days or even weeks after the shots. Babies and toddlers get sick a lot. But in any case I’m open to the possibility that the vaccines might have triggered the fevers and therefore the regression in that subgroup. Still, the genetic predisposition is the main factor, otherwise the majority of the population would be autistic.
“politicians will and have already providedd an explosion in money, not only for research, but in providing improved special eduaction services and passing laws requiring ‘autism’ to be covered in insurance policies.”
In many, if not most, cases due to political groundwork and action by parents, legislative white knights and action groups well before J. Mc first made her appearance on Oprah. So play the awareness card if you like, but give the credit where credit is properly due.
I have another take on this..
“Don’t listen to anyone who has a conflict of interest in this matter!” Does the doctor have a conflict of interest? Yes. Vaccines can lead to death or serious injury and most certainly harms the child’s immune system. If the kid had poor digestion and can’t eliminate the toxins, whooo nellie, we’re talking serious brain damage here!
Having said that, if the parent is comfortable with the risk and willing to play Russian Roulette with their kids health, so be it. They’re the ones who will have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong. If they don’t vaccinate and something goes wrong, same thing. This issue boils down to one and only one thing, the risk vs the reward. Study each vaccine individually, find out if immunity is guaranteed (most only give a small chance of immunity against the disease). Find out how likely or unlikely the child is of getting said disease (in some cases, like polio, only likely to get it if they get the vaccine, no cases of wild polio in how many years now?) Find out what can go wrong if they get the vaccine (death, brain damage, etc vs a rash or illness that is highly treatable in all but third world countries) I could go on and on beating this big pharma horse but it’s begging me not to beat it anymore. Don’t want to cause too much consternation with those who own a lot of drug company stock. LOL.
Hi Leila
You said
Jenny McCarthy’s message is that autism -rather than a lifelong condition- can be cured by diets and antifungal medication, and completely avoided if you don’t vaccinate. There’s nothing more misleading, wrong and damaging than that.
You have this interpretation- that it is extremist IMO. To vaccinate in any situation and without care was extremely misleading wrong and damaging to my son. To avoid the need of careful search , testing and diagnosis of his CMPs the same. To have uneducated doctor about what to test and how to interpret the tests ( mainstreamed or not) the same. Therefore the message of Ms Mc Carthy may be understood different by different people-such as with the ND message such as others- and depending on individual experience and considerations- and I have researched a lot the peer reviewed serious scientific literature on my son´s conditions- what is misleading , wrong and damaging may be also very different.
brstpathdoc,
How many years do they track Adverse Reactions?
Someone in my household continues to have medical (and resulting non-compensated financial) problems decades after the initial vaccination.
It would be a very interesting study to see how long these Adverse Reactions last and when the CDC stops reporting them. I am sure Adverse Reactions are underreported.
RAJ said: “Jenny McCarthy has done more to raise Autism Awareness than all the entire neurodiversity crowd combined. McCarthy’s vaccine diatribes are probably quite wrong, there is no eveidence to support her diatribes, but there is no evidence from the neurodiversity crowd that autism is not a profoundly handicapping condition that for most require lifelong support.”
No, RAJ. Jenny McCarthy’s message is that autism -rather than a lifelong condition- can be cured by diets and antifungal medication, and completely avoided if you don’t vaccinate. There’s nothing more misleading, wrong and damaging than that. The Autism Hub’s stance is that autism is a lifelong condition that can be improved depending on science-based, non-harmful therapies, and depending on the individual (not all autistic persons develop the same way). The Autism Hub bloggers many times talk about the necessity of funding services fot autistic adults, rather than funding research on fake causation theories.
Hi brstpathdoc
Unfortunately this kind of advice was totally useless in my son´s case.There are a lot of published reports related to clinical impact of vaccination that is unnoticed and unknown for the average peditrician in practice. Why it seems that only the minor adverse effects or the terrible ones are the situations to consider as average? What about nutritional metabolic and biochemical status at the time of vaccination? what about changes in time induced by them- especially in combination with the common infections of the childhood and their treatments? and with the changes in the feeding that many times take place?There are a lot of information of importance of changes in time and specially considering the full schedule of vaccines. I have no right to question your credibility- being a doctor or not- such as I have never given more than the opinion of an informed mom- NOT being a doctor but with scientific background. However there are a lot of doctors without the view of every patient as unique an without the needed consideration of parents opinions and concerns- that later became to be completely right at least in our case. Therefore things are really complicated. Even when I understand that your intention is right, unfortunately the information you posted is completely incomplete.
What I can tell you is that I think that serious committed and concerned doctors – interested on science-are the most needed in this situation. There is an ongoing problem of the people in the profession -in my experience- not the profession itself when related to concomitant medical problems (CMP) in ASD. The medical profession is beyond criticism in its importance but how it is applied by human beings is the point; how unknown aspects are approached and how autistic children are viewed after their diagnosis as such and how adverse reactions to vaccinesm ( full schedule and full composition) is known in terms of prevention, testing detection and treatment when they take place.
For example
Vaccine. 2007 Jan 4;25(2):391-8.
Modulation of the infant immune responses by the first pertussis vaccine administrations.
Mascart F, Hainaut M, Peltier A, Verscheure V, Levy J, Locht C.
Many efforts are currently made to prepare combined vaccines against most infectious pathogens, that may be administered early in life to protect infants against infectious diseases as early as possible. However, little is known about the general immune modulation induced by early vaccination. Here, we have analyzed the cytokine secretion profiles of two groups of 6-month-old infants having received as primary immunization either a whole-cell (Pw) or an acellular (Pa) pertussis vaccine in a tetravalent formulation of pertussis-tetanus-diphtheria-poliomyelitis vaccines. Both groups of infants secreted IFN-gamma in response to the Bordetella pertussis antigens filamentous haemagglutinin and pertussis toxin, and this response was correlated with antigen-specific IL-12p70 secretion, indicating that both pertussis vaccines induced Th1 cytokines. However, Pa recipients also developed a strong Th2-type cytokine response to the B. pertussis antigens, as noted previously. In addition, they induced Th2-type cytokines to the co-administrated antigen tetanus toxoïd, as well as to the food antigen beta-lactoglobulin. Furthermore, the general cytokine profile of the Pa recipients was strongly Th2-skewed at 6 months, as indicated by the cytokines induced by the mitogen phytohaemagglutinin. These data demonstrate that the cytokine profile of 6-month-old infants is influenced by the type of formulation of the pertussis vaccine they received at 2, 3 and 4 months of life. Large prospective studies would be warranted to evaluate the possible long-term consequences of this early modulation of the cytokine responses in infants.
Vaccine. 2008 Jul 4;26(29-30):3551-5
Sexual dimorphism of humoral immunity with human vaccines.
Cook IF.
University of Newcastle, Discipline of General Practice, School of Medical Practice and Population Health University Drive Callaghan, NSW 2308, Australia.
It has been contended that limited data exist on sex-difference in immune response with vaccines in humans. However, a comprehensive search of the literature retrieved 97 studies with 14 vaccines influenza (7 studies), hepatitis A (15 studies), hepatitis B (50 studies), pnuemococcal polysaccaride (4 studies), diphtheria (4 studies), rubella (3 studies), measles (2 studies), yellow fever (3 studies), meningococcal A (1 study), meningococcal C (1 study), tetanus (1 study), brucella (1 study), Venezuelan equine encephalitis (1 study) and rabies (4 studies), with sex-difference in humoral (antibody) response. These differences are associated with sex-difference in the clinical efficacy of influenza, hepatitis A, hepatitis B, pneumococcal polysaccharide and diphtheria vaccines and significant adverse reactions with rubella, measles and yellow fever vaccines. The genesis of these differences is uncertain but not entirely related to gonadal hormones (differences are seen in pre-pubertal and post-menopausal subjects not on hormone replacement therapy) or female sex (males had greater serological response for pneumococcal, diphtheria, yellow fever, Venezuelan equine encephalitis and in some studies with rabies vaccine. As sex-difference in humoral immune response was seen with most vaccines which cover the spectrum of mechanisms by which infectious agents cause disease (mucosal replication, viral viraemia, bacterial bacteraemia, toxin production and neuronal invasion), it is mandatory that vaccine trialists recruit a representative sample of females and males to be able to assess sex-differences which may have clinical implications.
Methods Mol Biol. 2008;448:469-79.
Pharmacogenomics in the evaluation of efficacy and adverse events during clinical development of vaccines.
Nilsson LJ, Regnström KJ.
Division of Paediatrics, Faculty of Health Sciences, Linköping University, Sweden.
The understanding of vaccine-induced immune responses in adults and infants is limited. Current vaccination schedules for infants are frequently debated. Especially, the relationship among the timing, the frequency of the dosing, and the generation of an immunological memory are debated. Vaccine antigen-induced cytokine responses to vaccinations given in infancy are of particular interest because little is known about cellular responses in this age, and the information available is based on antibody responses. Pharmacogenomics is ideally suited to study cellular responses related to immune response; in addition, toxicity, inflammation, apoptosis, stress, and oncogenesis can be monitored, since the expression of thousands of genes can be measured in a single experiment.