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New theory says autism and schizophrenia same disease, says today’s Chronicle-Herald about the new theory about autism and genetics. According to this latest theory (per last Tuesday’s New York Times), “an evolutionary tug of war between genes from the father’s sperm and the mother’s egg can, in effect, tip brain development in one of two ways.” But (keeping in mind that autism was once referred to as childhood schizophrenia) can—should— autism and schizophrenia be equated?
I meant to make another point and didn’t, related to my girlfriend often feeling defined by her CP.
My mom is pretty resistant to me getting a diagnosis because she doesn’t want there to be something wrong. I’m pretty sure this is why I was never tested–also, I’m in my mid-twenties, and the criteria have broadened since I was a little kid, which is partially why I meet them now. I’ve gone most of my life different, but without a word (especially an official word written down by a doctor) to describe my issues. I’ve never felt discriminated against because of that word, never felt held back by it. If I do get a diagnosis now, it would be my own choice to take it on and deal with it. I can pass for normal when pressed.
Because her CP is obvious when you see her walk, Kitty never had that chance. She has always been the girl with CP, and often held back because of it (she started kindergarten a year late because she couldn’t yet walk, literally held back by her CP). I know that a physical disability and a developmental disability aren’t necessarily analagous, but it does make me wonder how I would have been different if I had gotten a diagnosis as a kid.
I can’t say if it would have been so reassuring to learn as a child that all of my differences had a name. It might have made my lack of friends more tolerable–or it might have made me hate the diagnosis and do everything I could to escape it. Same with my anxiety issues (which I’ve learned I can’t escape), or my sensory issues (I don’t even know how to escape those, if I wanted to).
I’m comfortable with learning about the spectrum and speculating about my position on it as an adult. Did you know a developmental disability includes disabilities that present before the age of 22 (or so says my job training tests I have to take)? The psychologist I saw when I was sixteen took my lack of friendships and perseveration issues for depression and anxiety, because I was a teen and that’s what teenagers have. If she had been looking for Asperger’s, she could have diagnosed that instead. Especially seeing some of the kids here with issues much like my own, I sometimes wonder if someone needs to clue in the psychologists that on the high-functioning Aspie end of the spectrum, one can pass for years until they break down.
I can’t speak difinitively to how it feels to get a diagnosis, since I don’t carry one, but learning about autism and the whole spectrum has certainly given me some relief. Being able to look at the requirements for a diagnosis of Asperger’s and then look at myself is almost reassuring.
My girlfriend finds this incomprehensible. She’s carried a diagnosis all her life (cerebral palsy), and at many times felt defined by it. She would love to escape it and can’t, because it’s something physically wrong with her. The idea that I can find comfort in shared symptoms and issues is totally foreign to her; I appreciate the idea that I’m not just weird and anti-social, which feel like superficial words for the problems I’ve had, especially in the realm of relating to peers. I do understand, I think, why some parents may find the term “little professor” to be condescending, but it is and was a good fit for me.
Conceptualizing myself as being on or near the spectrum has also given me some interesting insights at my work. I’ve been totally absent from most of the blogs I used to read regularly because I took a job in August working at a children’s psychiatric hospital. My regular shift is 3rd, so I don’t see too much of most of the patients, but I work the other two shifts pretty regularly, too. My unit is the children’s unit, so most of the kids are 12 and under. We’ve had quite a few young autistic kids since I started, and I’ve really enjoyed working with them (quite a few have had trouble sleeping at night, so I’ve seen them plenty!). It’s quite possible I’m seeing something that isn’t there, but I feel like I work well with the kids on the spectrum who are here because we understand each other. Their frustrations appear to be easier for me to read than for some of the other staff with the same amount of experience. And whatever it is in me that makes that possible, I’m profoundly grateful for it.
(As an aside, I worry for these kids, especially. We’re slated to close in June–we’re the only public center for kids and teens in my state, and budget cuts have us closing. Some of the kids we have will be fine in a private setting, but this is an acute care hospital, and many of the autistic kids we get are from the autistic residential schools in the state because they are violent to themselves or others. If these schools are sending these kids to us now, what happens when we close?)
Glad you joined the discussion now—–that notion of “adult-onset autism” is really interesting. Would you say it’s different from learning that one has a diagnosis, while in one’s adulthood?
As usual, I missed a discussion I was perfect for! My own fault for being insanely busy.
I suppose I fit into the category of army of self-diagnosed Aspies, being self-diagnosed by choice. My suspicions waver between being near-but-not-on the spectrum to mild Asperger’s, and every shade between the two. Strangely, the government isn’t fond of those with a diagnosis on the spectrum working in embassies and consulates, so I remain pseudonymmed and unofficially diagnosed. I figure if I made it this far and can mostly function, I’ve learned enough coping skills to pass for normal when need be and that’ll be fine.
Interestingly, I do carry a hypermobility diagnosis.
As to the concept of adult-onset autism, I personally would be interested in research on this. I’ve noted before that while I’ve always had many of the issues that I do now (social/emotional/sensory issues, especially–there’s a synesthesia diagnosis, too), I’ve felt they have gotten worse in the past couple of years. This coincides with some major life changes for me, as well as dysthemia.
1225 days ago
[...] for identifying autism in infants (”strange play“), and more speculation about autism and schizophrenia as the same. A mandatory autism registry was proposed in New Jersey; researchers began to look for [...]
Hi. My daughter was diagnosed with asperger’s syndrome 2 years ago. It was then changed to high functioning autism with additional complex needs. After the full ADOS assessments, which we have only recently finished, the diagnosis of HFA is still right but the ‘experts’ think she may have childhood schizophrenia aswell!! I am still waiting for their full report.
@Yve,
what wonderful neighbors—I mean the ones you have now! If I may ask, how long did it take before your daughter was properly diagnosed? My son goes in phases about what he likes to eat, though we try to keep it fairly varied—he eats a lot as he has entered adolescence and is really growing. Sometimes the things he dislikes the most at first become his favorites.
Your last sentence rings very true. While I know people mean well when they tell me my son is a “blessing,” there’s a bit more that can be said and done. very best—-
Actually, I am quite happy with my daughters “label” of Autism! It is so much better than “that naughty, aggressive, destructive, evil, little child”, which was the label she had before being diagnosed with autism. People are much more understanding of her now (or at least try to be). Before, she would be chased down the street by other parents, we had eggs thrown at our windows, the head cut off her favourite sunflower, our garden plants set fire to, etc, etc, all because of local people’s reaction to my daughter’s behaviour. We were moved away and when I explained to my new neighbours that my daughter was autistic, they were fantastic, they still are fantastic a year later and they love my daughter to pieces. They are very good with her and if she does behave badly in front of them, they are ok with it and are supportive. There is a lot to be said in favour of “labels”, actually knowing and understanding why your child behaves like they do is much better than just ignoring and undiagnosing.
And most parents of children with autism will know how difficult it can be to get their child to eat anything! My daughter has refused to eat anything new for 6 years, she is slightly underweight but very active and sporty, unlike so many young kids these days.
Suggestions like ‘change her diet’ or ‘get prayer for healing’, although possibly helpful, are none the less insulting.
i think people should stop relating to everything as a desease, or diagnosing everyone with everything.
for anyone, regardless if diagnosed or not, it is important to learn to live a good life. for some it is easier, for some its harder. for some it is impossible.
a reasonable diet is a good start.
and the ways that teach you living a good life are found in coulture, family and maybe traditions or religions.
people should care less about the “lable” of a diagnose they can put on themselves or others, but care more about their most personal life.
ASD is different than psychosis. A doctor who needs to be educated like anybody else is. Being educated on ASD is important. Some doctors are not humble enough to learn. These are doctors that wind up going nowhere. I was always taught to be humble and willing to learn.
You should probably see a different psychiatrist. Though, having an ASD does not mean the person with ASD can’t have a psychosis like NT’s can. It is rare, but it can happen too.
My 8 yr old daughter has High Functioning Autism and after the ADOS her psychiatrist wants to diagnose childhood schizophrenia aswell!!!! Waiting for full report from psychs.
Read my page, the facts speak for themselves.
I didn’t post that stuff to do anything but help others.
The key to who is and isn’t affected is the study from hacsg.org
In 1987 they tested 357 school age kids, out of those 357 kids, 87% had an adverse behavioral reaction to food dyes.
This suggests that 87% of our society which happens to be around 244 million Americans as being equally affected as those children.
So technically I am NOT the only one who can benefit from my suggestions of avoiding all artificial food additives.
Alot of my comments and speculations come from my own experiences and what I found since I stopped consuming is the level of immediate affects, right after consuming things like margarine or any other artificial colors, flavors etc.
Margarine, which has no studies, no research, no clues that it’s as bad as it is.
You do not realize how bad it is because you don’t notice anything wrong because the artificial colors which are the most widely used additive of all has a subtle affect and it helps to block the more severe reaction to the artificial flavor used in margarine.
I do agree that the vaccines that are administered are very bad, but the vaccine shouldn’t cause something to permanant as life long autism.
It eventually should be purged from your body over time.
The artificial food additives that we consume every day are what maintains the autism.
Take the vaccine and avoid the artificials and you should be fine.
Take the vaccine and continue consuming much of the same type of toxins in the vaccines and you keep the cycle of events that keep a person in a autistic state. Period.
The artificial additives contain lead and many of the same ingredients as the vaccines.
As for funding research(Barbara), I don’t need that, I have already proven that my challenge will work for everyone who dares to try.
Additionally with regard to……… “Wasn’t exposed to a single “artificial food additive” for at least the first 18 months of his life and has been “exposed” only very sparingly since.”
Almost all childrens vitamins, childrens tylenol and just about all medications contain those dyes.
I had to take vicodin for my lower back surgery and I got migraines from taking vicodin, I searched for the ingredients and the white pills like the vicodin contain a blue dye.
If you can remember the old addage used in some laundry commercials “with added blueing for extra whitening” this is what drives the same theory of making pills look whiter.
The first 18 months is probably the worst because the immune system hasnt really been built up to par yet.
Another study from the South Hampton University in the UK concluded that 100% of people who consume the artificials are affected.
Food is the first place to look!
It’s literally what we all have in common.
and I mean everyone.
See red40.com
Emily, I am hearing what you say with great interest. BTW, the concept of time will come, stick with it. Bug, who’s not a little professor, either, didn’t get it until he was in 7th grade – but he Got It. ;)
Let me add something: How many of you who entirely disagree with any or all of this have children who are over the age of 15?
You don’t know what you don’t know, I guess, is what I’m getting at. Autism Changes. A child with certain traits at a young age, that you think is a certain way, and would never do (whatever), is the total opposite when he reaches teenhood….
I have seen many older autistic teens with schizophrenic traits. HOWEVER – it does not mean that they are full-fledged schizophrenics. Basically you could say it is like ADD or ADHD in kids with AS – it’s attention issues, but not manifested the same as a person with ADD/ADHD only, because it’s a co-morbidity of the autism.
I also do not count what Jorma says out. Food additives DO hurt people. I firmly believe that aspartame caused my breast cancer. It also gave me arthritis, and three weeks after I stopped drinking diet soda, it went Totally away.
MSG gives us all headaches. Chicken nuggets and the like are loaded with it. If any of your kids are eating the deadly “chicken nuggets” or other breaded pre-packaged junk, try giving just that up for a month. Bug’s headaches went away, and so did his teenage zits!
Giving up M&Ms, though…..(lol heavy sigh)
Ahh, thank you, Emily. I drop-in about weekly – have to manage my blog habit – er – habit my some mechanism – er – schedule.
Anyway, perseveration works for me conceptually. I will be more mindful in the future.
Thanks for sponsoring this exchange, Kristina. You manage a very helpful forum.
Barbara, my bet would be on one of the many collagen genes, a la Ehlers-Danlos.
Can’t be what Jorma describes for any number of scientific reasons, but in our case, also an anecdotal one–he came out that way. Wasn’t exposed to a single “artificial food additive” for at least the first 18 months of his life and has been “exposed” only very sparingly since. He has no joint pain, no inflammation.
Food is unquestionably not the place for us to look.
Barbara, one thing you find on here is also a great deal of classic perseveration. For some people, it’s the “broad autism phenotype.” For others, it’s different hypotheses (I use the term loosely) about the etiology (mine is dopamine, and I probably do perseverate on it, but at least there’s a bit o’ training behind that).
Another of mine is pseudoscience, and I’ll be taking that example up there and using it for my science classes next semester as part of our discussion. It fulfills quite a few criteria quite clearly.
Emily?
Kristina you are still highly magnetized.
Jarma, good for you – finding what works for you. Just doesn’t work that way. You will have to prove your own beliefs, and betcha cannot find anyone to fund your proposal.
I’m certain, based on my knowledge of human physiology, that joint hyper-mobility and greater-than-typical-extensibility of connective tissue is genetically-based – just like the underlying beginnings of the neural differences in the brains of persons on the spectrum.
As important as diet is to ALL health and function, food is not the place I would start for increasing the understanding of this phenomenon in persons on the spectrum.
I’m not a researcher (at this time). Think of me more as a protector from SHILL sold as research.
With regard to the tissue connectivity….
I addressed this on my myspace page!
It’s all about the fever that is a result of the allergic reaction our bodies have to the artificial food additives.
We all know (maybe?) that when we have a fever we feel stiff and achy.
That stiff and achy part is what eventually develops into the osteo arthritic problems that most people have when they reach adulthood.
The fever causes the achy stiffness which in turn reduces the lubricating fluids in the joints which possibly could explain part of the flapping and such.
As for self diagnosis, that is what I did.
I am one of those self-diagnosed Aspies..
I also self-diagnosed my bipolar/manic disorder which has been confirmed by a competant psychologist.
Soon, I will have my aspergers professionally diagnosed as well.
Growing up, I had all the same problems your children have today, only in the 1960s the diagnoses, or evaluations were not up to par.
Instead of ADD, or ADHD, or even Autism people, like me, were evaluated with a sociopathic, or an antisocial disorder.
For over 100 years, that I know of…. Americans have been misdiagnosed, or misevaluated with a variety of psychoses, or mental problems, but instead of treating them, many were left on the wayside and others were jailed, institutionalized, or worse, lobotomized and so on. (Just how many went over the cookoos nest?)
Back then your children would have been locked up as crazies.
I will never say I told you so.
But when the truth comes to light about the affects of these petroleum and wood based coal tar food additives (color, flavor and preservatives) You just might believe what sort of intelligence this aspergers thing has given me.
I know that I am 100% correct about this.
I am too smart to be wrong and I have spent much of the past two years studying everything I can find about these toxic food additives.
If you doubt me, Accept the challenge in the blogs of my myspace page.
Avoid all artificial food additives for one month and see how it makes you feel.
You will see and you will be 100% convinced like I am.
I discovered the cause of Autism, Aspergers, Cancer (most) and so much more.
And there’s so much more to this than you will ever believe.
Ban the artificial food additives and all of America will wake up and will change.
If you doubt me?
Prove me wrong!
Please, prove me wrong.
There’s a tragic side to the conflation of autism and schizophrenia: people on the autism spectrum misdiagnosed “schizophrenic” — sometimes on the basis of only the “negative” symptoms of the latter (for example, flat affect) without the “positive” symptoms (for example, delusional thinking), sometimes on misinterpretation regarding the “positive” symptoms — and medically mistreated as a result.
I wrote about that in a footnote to the paper I contributed to “Autism and Representation”, a conference on the representation of autism in film, literature, social science, and popular culture held at Case Western Reserve University in 2005:
“At Autreat 1999, I attended a workshop on autistic forms of humor. The four people closest to me in the room were all survivors of the inpatient mental health system – all of them autistic women who had been misdiagnosed with schizophrenia or other psychoses, mismedicated (in several cases almost with fatal results), and mistreated with “disciplinary” measures while locked up. The fact that they could all be in that room, participating in a workshop on humor, says something important about the resiliency of the human spirit.”
Saying one is indicative of the other…is like saying spoons make people fat.